and BF1, "they" have the working people convinced that $12/hr. and 30 or so hours/week with no benefits is a good job in a $25/hr. -40+ hours/week economy
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BF1, the argument comes from the crony capitalists who aren't just happy with a successful business but want all the profits for themselves and the corporations like Boeing who wanted to move to Alabama to "get away from the high union wages". There was a time when the CEO made about 30 times what the lowest paid employee did and everybody was happy. Everybody was making money and everybody was happy. Today the CEOs are making 4000-5000 times what the low guy is and they want more and wonder why that guy putting the product out the door has to make so much.
Greed has replaced the concept of having enough
A business is responsible for treating their employees fairly and respectfully. That means paying a full time employee a wage that allows him/her to support themselves without government assistance. I absolutely believe it is a business's responsibility to do that. If a business can't provide that level of wage to its employees, then it is not a viable business. And of course, in return for those wages, the business should expect exemplary work from its employee. This seems self-evident to me - who would argue?
BF1, individuals are the ONLY ones who can effect a substantial change in their lives through education, a desire to succeed and effort. I have no sympathy for anyone who settles for mediocrity. Where did you get the idea that a person goes into business to provide high wages and benefits for somebody else? No Business can survive with a Govt. dictating the wages they have to pay regardless of the tangible worth of the job. You're advocating for a higher wage now but when consumer prices go further through the roof as a result are you going to be satisfied and gladly reach deeper for goods and services that are not worth the price? I hope you're not advocating for Totalitarian Govt. Control as I suspect. Since an individuals success is not now in Business' or the Governments purview, my question remains...what are these people doing for themselves?? Which do you prefer...'let me do for you' or 'let me get out of the way so you can do for yourself'?
The American dream has vanished, in part because of regulations like these. You cannot open a business without giving total control to NYS. When the state fights your every move no matter how positive it is... you get roadblocked into a miniscule mode.
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The group of people you are referring to are a lost cause who wouldn't be affected if the minimum wage was raised to $50 an hour because they don't want to work. Their way of life is too entrenched. But there are people who make minimum wage, who don't accept social service help, and who are hard, contentious workers. These are the people whose lives would be changed by a substantial minimum wage hike.
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Anna, heheh, you've probably noticed that 'neutral' is not a stance I often take, but watch out..If NYS allows selective, State Govt. controlled minimum wage structures, Calif. will get pizzed and jealous then come up with something worse for you guys. Anyhow, I liked the Calif. coast but I also like to see the sun before 10am.
BF1, I completely reject your premise.."So what do we do with an entire class of people"......and so on. 'WE' have done enough and have exacerbated the situation by thinking 'WE' have to solve the problem. I'm way past being concerned, for at least 2 generations it sure has changed...for the worse..this so-called 'class' has done NOTHING for themselves except latch on to the belief they are victims of sometning or other, pick a day, pick the offense. No sir, 'I am my brothers keeper' does NOT mean he gets to be a lazy stupid moocher with not one ounce of pride or ambition. It's not a problem I chose and we can see this 'class' of people, as you call them, and their offspring have no intention of changing. If they need something...go to the gubment. F that, I didn't choose their fate but its MY problem 'cause have to pay for that chosen attitude. So BF1, tell me what they are going to do for themselves, then ask me that question again.
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One more thought, years ago before Clinton and Obama, churches, temples and charities took care of those who could not care for themselves. Thought Americans are the most giving people in the world (they are) Obama has changed the tax system to make it more difficult for people to give to charities, and thus have limited given amounts. Government has taken over, and has cost us dearly. Also, in the not so far past, it was not a badge of honor to get help from the government.
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To MrBob51, I was trying to be neutral, living part time in California, I do understand the living wage. I believe it began in San Francisco. Who would've thunk it?
To BlackFrancis1, It looks like we've lost the original American spirit.
So what do we do with an entire class of people who will be at or near minimum wage earners their entire lives? I concede that some are in that position because of shortsightedness, lack of motivation, whatever. But not every person working for minimum wage is lazy and stupid. They can never hope to get by without some type of assistance. I don't know what the magic dollar per hour number is that would make everyone happy but we are all going to pay, one way or the other. It's the price of an advanced civilization.
BlackFrancis1...No. See explanation below. Since I believe that your own experience, profession and abilities are as you say, I also believe, intellectually, you already know the answer too.
Anna, at issue is the New York State Legislature allowing one section of NYS to set a different minimum wage than the rest of the State, not what NYC doing what's best for NYC. Do you or anyone else out there think this precedent will NOT be used in other 'selected' areas of the State if allowed in NYC?? Of course it will, with the consequences will be small business' leaving NYC and NYS altogether, fewer jobs, and higher consumer prices to name a few. Yes, it CAN get worse. The minimum wage was never designed to support a family, the purpose was for a single unskilled, under-educated or inexperienced individual entering the workforce. The term 'living wage' was invented by income redistributers in a effort to fool and reward their herd of somewhat less than ambitious low achievers who need a trophy. Sorry, but in the real world those income trophy's are individually earned, not given away en masse.
A "living wage" is what a person can live on without the help of government support. The "minimum wage" is the least amount an employer can set for an employee. Minimum wages are usually for people entering the working force for the first time, with the belief that a person will work their way up to a desirable wage. It is not a standard for living on one's own.
While I am not in favor of minimum wage, areas such as NYC should have the right to do what is best for them.
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I'm a little hazy on the purpose of setting a minimum wage. Is that an amount on which a single person can support themselves? How about a single mother w/ a child (or 2)? If you are going to set an hourly amount at which the employee can be self-supporting, without tapping into SNAP, HEAP, etc then the amount is ludicrously low. I've read some economists who think that for a single mother with 1 child to support herself w/ no social service help, she must earn a minimum of $20 per hour. Is that what is meant by minimum wage?
Getreal, paying someone for their worth is paying them for their skill, ability and experience. In other words, you are getting what you pay for. Minimum wage is the pay for an entry level, unskilled position where the worker is paid for what the JOB is worth and not the person, again getting what you pay for. Governments trying to determine a persons wages in the private workforce, regardless of the product or service being produced, only serves to increase the supply of unemployed people, decrease opportunity and cause higher consumer prices. You've heard the phrase 'voodoo economics'..Well, this is a great example.
the problem with paying the worker what they are worth is the employer always has there little cronies who do nothing, and reap all the benefits because they are the "yes man". The people who actually do the work get overlooked or laid off. That's one of the reasons why Unions where formed.
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There already is a Federal Minimum Wage Ellrite..it's $7.25/hr. States can go higher but not lower. The argument here is whether or not NYS can/should allow one part of the State to have a different Minimum wage than the rest of the State. The formula politicians seem to using is one where large populations require a higher entry-level wage. That may sound reasonable but politicians don't create jobs, hire people or pay wages. For many reasons there is a supply/demand problem in NYC where the 'supply' of unskilled entry level workers far exceeds the 'demand'. Raising the minimum wage in an effort to change this economic disequilibrium will change it alright..it will make it worse by forcing business' out and further raising the 'supply' of unskilled people seeking jobs while decreasing business' demand for them.
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The strength to do the job right and then to fight for yourself to get what you deserve is natural... survival of the fittest. If you have a gift in one area but are obviously lacking in another are you truly worth the top rewards?
here is a better example -- ins. cos. complain that towing rates are too high, all the decent towers agree that one weekend all the wrecks stay clogging up the roads. The old guy with a 1946 "Mater" tows them all off for $10.
Nobody sticks together and somebody will always do the job for less with an "at least I got work" attitude
Former, that works in a ideal world. The problem with the real world is that the good painter will get a few jobs and the corner cutter will be overloaded with work because he is cheaper and the work is "good enough". He might even end up hiring the good painter and complain that he takes too long to do the job.
In a perfect world there doesn't need to be a minimum wage. Everyone believes that their services based on their ability are worth a certain wage per hour. Over simplifying, there are two painters, one that does an outstanding job and the other that cuts corners resulting in less than ideal results. As the reputation of these two painters gets around, the good painter is able to more readily find work at the rate he charges. The other painter attempts to charge the same rate and bid jobs using that rate. He finds that in order to get work he either has to cut his rate or improve his performance. If he lacks the skill set to improve performance, he must settle for charging a lower rate or find a job skill in which he can excel. Both men are painters, why would anyone pay them the same rate. The same is true with the minimum wage. Give a worker an incentive to achieve more and most will. It will be a slippery slope for the rest of the state if NYC increases their minimum wage.
There should be a minimum wage across the nation.
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Drugs, it's Algonquian that roughly translates to: 'let-the-idiots'.
What is a lettum ??? I can't find it in any dictionary
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